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A ROUNDTABLE INTERVIEW WITH THE CAST AND CREW OF THE LORD OF THE
RINGS: THE RETURN OF THE KING
On Wednesday, Dec. 5th, Jeffrey Overstreet
joined several other privileged film critics, including Steven D.
Greydanus (Decent Films), Andrew Coffin (World), Steve Beard
(Thunderstruck), Jeremy Landes (Christian Spotlight), and Michael Elliott
(Movie Parables) to talk with members of the
cast and crew for the year's most ambitious, exhausting, and gloriously
realized film. Over the course of this week, Looking Closer will be
adding excerpts of those interviews here. Keep checking back!
Viggo Mortensen -
Aragorn
WARNING:
THE FOLLOWING INTERVIEW CONTAINS SPOILERS. DO NOT READ IT IF YOU WANT TO
GUARD YOUR IGNORANCE ABOUT PLOT POINTS IN THE FILM.
Jeffrey Overstreet:
You’ve worked with so many of the great contemporary directors, playing
smaller roles. And now you’ve had this enormous responsibility, this
great opportunity, working with Peter Jackson. What have you learned as
an actor from working with him?
Viggo Mortensen:
Even more patience. It was a long haul for all of us. It wasn’t like a
movie that lasts a month or three months even, where you could look
ahead [and say] “Well, in another few weeks I’ll be doing this or that.”
There was no end to it. The weeks just ran into each other and the days
got longer and longer. By the end it was 16 and 17 hours, six days a
week, collapse on Sunday and do your laundry, and all of a sudden you’re
on the set again!
Jeffrey:
How did that affect your family life?
Viggo:
What family life? [laughs] My son did come and visit quite a bit and
stayed for some lengthy periods. But yeah, it made it difficult. For me,
the hardest thing was not three-and-a-half months of night shoots at
Helm’s Deep––it was those absences from my son, and finding a way to
stay in touch consistently.
But I knew going in
that it would be kind of like the Fellowship, when they say, “Yeah,
we’ll go in and join this club and do this thing.” They have no
idea—even Aragorn and Gandalf who know Middle-Earth and know what
they’re up against…Aragorn above all. As Gandalf says in the book,
[Aragorn is] “the greatest traveler and huntsman of this age of the
world”… meaning all the places we see in these movies he’s been to many
times. All of the languages, all of the cultures, as aware as he is of
the obstacles he’s going to be up against… he still has no idea how bad
it’s going to be. Each step of the way gets harder.
It was the same.
Setting out, I knew the absences were going to be lengthy. And they got
a lot longer, and the breaks disappeared completely.
Steven
D. Greydanus:
Your
character goes through a tremendous story arc, growing in his ability to
accept this role of the king. And yet in the first film, he’s already so
masterful that not only can he take on five Nazgul single-handedly, and
not only can he take on an entire army of orcs, but he is the one
character in the film who calmly and easily puts aside the temptation of
the Ring … without freaking out and without a momentary hint of
succumbing.
After
doing that, how do you develop and ennoble and grow the character [of
Aragorn] to the point where he becomes so much more than that that he’s
finally able to take the crown?
Viggo:
You make it sound easier than it was. I think when he sees the Ring and
the Ring calls out to him in the first part of the trilogy, and it’s in
Frodo’s hand. There is a moment where he thinks about it. But he
overcomes that, you’re right. There is something in him that is able to
do that.
With the Nazgul on
Weathertop, he knows that fire is not their friend, so that’s something
he uses to his advantage.
But yeah, he is
psychologically strong, although he does struggle at times, and he
sometimes shows a hesitation and doubt, which I think are good qualities
for a leader. I wish more leaders in our world had those qualities…
because that implies a lack of arrogance. It implies a concern with,
among other things, the effects of your words and actions on others. A
lot of our leaders, including, unfortunately, the one who leads our
country, the United States, doesn’t show much compassion, in my opinion.
He uses those kind of words, but his actions give a lie to that. I wish
there was more of that.
And by the end—to
answer your question—he has to confront those doubts. As big a
battle as the Black Gate is, or coming in with those reinforcements at
the Pelennor Fields, is the conclusion of his psychological battle, when
he confronts the dead. That is, in a way, his biggest struggle.
There is that, in
the third movie, that he has to face up to. But also, when he goes to
the Black Gate, it’s not just throwing yourself out there the way
Gandalf does in Moria… that individual sacrifice… which all of the
Fellowship members at some times make … [like] Sam literally carrying
Frodo … but he has to not just do the Lone Ranger thing and go on his
merry way. He has to, by the example that he sets and his conviction,
persuade the whole army of Rohan and Gondor who have survived the
Pelennor Fields, and Gandalf, against Gandalf’s initial better judgment…
and Merry, and Pippin, and Legolas, and Gimli… and not only commit
suicide himself, but convince all of the others to do the same thing …
to do what looks like sure death, and would have been if Frodo hadn’t
gotten there.
The lesson is the
union with others is more significant than your individual
existence. It doesn’t deny the importance of your individual
existence; it just means that you are a better person the more you
connect with others. You’re going to know more, you’re going to be
stronger, and you’re going to have a better life if you get over
yourself.
Bob
Smithouser:
Over the course of making the trilogy, did you have any kind of a life
lesson come home to you that you think would be particularly valuable to
pass on to teenagers today.
Viggo:
I don’t know how to put it in one quick sentence, but… “Get over
yourself,” I guess.
[laughter]
I mean … it’s part
of growing up.
My son is 15 and he
… [smiles] … he has a healthy
lack of respect for me … in a way.
Just as Aragorn has
had as his friend and mentor Gandalf for decades … just as with any
father and a teacher … there comes a point where to become mature as a
person, whether the decision in itself is good or bad, a moment at some
point you have to say, “Okay, now I have to think for myself.” To judge
when that is, it’s hard to say. But at some point you have to make that
break to be an individual.
In the story, at
least in the movie—well, not in this one, anyway, but in the Extended
Edition—there’s a point where there is a hint of that when Aragorn says,
“I think we should do this thing. We should go to the Black Gate and
draw them.” When Eomer says, “We cannot win with strength of arms,” he’s
saying, “That’s suicide.” And Aragorn says, “Yeah. But that’s the best
thing we can do.” That’s him thinking for himself and making his own
decision.
It’s good you when
you have to do that. I’m not saying tell your parents to f*** off …
immediately.
[laughter]
Maybe it has more to
do with your peers. There’s the one side which is “Get over yourself and
don’t be selfish and listen to others. “ But you have to balance that
with “Don’t believe everything you hear.” There comes a point where you
have to say, “Hmm, the newspaper says this or that. The President said
this or that.” You’re not forced to, but you can try to inform
yourself further and make up your own mind.
Press:
You’ve passed over a Rubicon from being an actor to being a celebrity.
Do you feel a responsibility to use that platform that you have to share
your political beliefs, or do you just do that out of who you are?
Viggo:
No. I’ve never really done that before. It is really just a reaction
that comes out of being told over and over—not asked—but told, as if it
is an accepted fact, that in the case of this story there is a direct
parallel. In other words, we, “the Fellowship” are the United States,
and the bad guys are the faceless or brown-faced nameless Islamic
terrorists. It’s a dangerous comparison to make.
It’s just as faulty
as what Tolkien objected so strongly to, which was to knowingly misapply
Nordic cosmology, literature, mythology, to justify the military actions
or the racist policies of the Third Reich.
It bothered me, so I
reacted. I thought, at a certain point I’m seeming to agree with
what they’re saying, and I can’t do that morally. Do you know
what I mean?
And I don’t think
that it’s my job—or any celebrity’s job—to speak out. But
on the other hand, I disagree with people who say, “You’re a celebrity,
so just shut your mouth and do your thing.”
You saw that in the
Vietnam war, where the government would say things or the media would
reinforce that, [saying]: “Let the congressmen, let the people in
government judge the moral course of the country. There were placed
there to judge these things. Let them do it” That’s not what this
country is about. This government is a government by the people, for
the people.
It’s wrong to say,
“Because you’re a plumber, a taxi driver, a journalist, an actor,
unemployed, a single mother… you don’t have a right to say anything.”
The history of the United States and other nations [shows that the
practice of] leaving to those who govern the moral decision-making and
the course of the country has not been a very successful one.
Press:
Given that, what is your worldview, your platform for making these moral
judgments?
Viggo:
I believe we have more in common with other people than not. And for the
United States, in regards to Afghanistan—which is treated already as
“the distant past” almost like Vietnam, and the government likes it that
way—the consequences of what we did there are still being felt and will
be for a long time… generations. Forget about the effect on our
infrastructure and our standing in the world.
[pauses, searching
for the best words]
My point of view is
that we have more in common with others than not. If you look at
yourself as this country’s government has tried to—“We’re Americans.
We’re different. If we can use the U.N. as we did in Korea or in the
first invasion of Iraq, and they’re going to go along with us, then
great. If not, then screw ‘em. We’re Americans, we have a right to do
things that other countries don’t.” By separating yourselves as
Americans, as Frenchmen, as Iraqis, to separate yourselves from others
and consider yourselves as special or different, that’s to construct the
walls of your own prison. That’s a one-way road going the wrong way.
Jeremy:
Aragorn’s of noble birth, but he doesn’t seem to want to accept his
kingship. Do you think that individuals have been given special talents
or tremendous resources have a responsibility to intervene where we see
injustice?
Viggo:
Aragorn … accepts it to do well by his fellow men, and realizes that if
he doesn’t do something it won’t get done. [But] those words can be
easily twisted and abused. Those kinds of words can be used to justify
actions that those who undertake them and have the information available
know is misleading … that they are misapplying those words and those
ideas.
That is
reprehensible. It’s as reprehensible as what the Germans did, in terms
of the “high ideals” of Nordic literature and Nordic mythology.
I see what your
point is, but I don’t think the United States has any more of a right to
police the world than any other country.
Where we go wrong
is in
saying that we do not have to adhere to the principles or the ideals of
the community of nations … we just spat on that, and did what we wanted,
and walked right over that, and did what we wanted out of self-interest.
That is really what we did. That cannot be questioned. We denied what
the U.N. was saying. We said, “No… what’s good for us might not be good
for you, but we don’t care.” That’s what we did.
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